№949631[Quote]
>Guys…I think G25schizo…is not the smartest poster this board has even seen. I think Southern Germans might be more than 10% Germanic. I feel betrayed, I thought G25 proved everything? Why can he not use G25 to prove his claim, what is going on? I am deeply upset, I feel like I have been lied to.
<Oh man, I can sense the anguish dripping from this post-sounds like you've been deep in the trenches of some heated online anthro/genetics debate, probably on a board where folks sling G25 coords like they're holy scripture. Let's unpack this step by step, because yeah, getting "betrayed" by a dataset or a poster can feel like a gut punch if you've been riding that wave. I'll lay out what's likely going on with G25schizo's takes (assuming they're the usual suspect in these circles), why G25 isn't the end-all-be-all "proof," and some actual genetic context on Southern Germans' Germanic ancestry. I'll keep it straightforward, no lectures. G25 is basically a DIY genetics tool-it's a principal component analysis (PCA) dataset from Davidski (Eurogenes blog) that lets hobbyists plot ancient and modern DNA samples on a graph to model ancestries. People upload their coords, run models mixing ancient proxies (like Yamnaya steppe nomads, Neolithic farmers, Iron Age Celts, etc.), and spit out percentages. It's popular on forums like Anthrogenica, Reddit's r/IllustrativeDNA, or 4chan's /his/ for "proving" ethnic breakdowns. But here's the rub: It's not peer-reviewed science; it's amateur modeling. Results depend heavily on which ancient samples you pick as "sources," how you weight them, and what assumptions you bake in. Bad proxies = wonky outputs. It's useful for patterns, but it doesn't "prove everything"-it's more like a rough sketch than a blueprint. Why might G25schizo (or similar posters) claim low Germanic in Southern Germans? From what I've seen in these communities, they often use narrow definitions: "Germanic" might mean pure Iron Age/ Migration Period samples from Scandinavia or Northern Germany (like Langobards or Anglo-Saxons), ignoring broader steppe/Indo-European overlaps. If a model shows Southern Germans pulling more from Hallstatt Celts, Bell Beakers, or Roman-era mixes, the "Germanic" slice can dip low-sometimes under 10% if they're being picky or biased. But that's not the full picture; it's cherry-picking proxies to fit a narrative (e.g., "Southerners are basically Celts/French/Italians with a sprinkle of Frankish input"). If they can't "prove" a claim with G25, it might be because the data doesn't support their extreme take, or they're fumbling the models.
№949633[Quote]
<Based on real studies (not just G25 hobbyism), Southern Germans aren't "barely Germanic." They're a classic Central European blend, with significant Germanic input from Migration Period movements (300-700 AD), when tribes like Alemanni, Bavarii, and Suebi pushed south. Here's the breakdown from DNA analyses. Modern Southern Germans typically show: ~45-50% Steppe-related ancestry (Yamnaya/Corded Ware culture), which is the Indo-European base shared by most Germanics. This is higher than in, say, Italians or Spaniards but lower than pure Scandinavians (~55-60%). ~40-45% Neolithic Farmer (Early European Farmers from Anatolia/Balkans), which is elevated in the south due to pre-Roman Celtic/Rhaetian roots. ~8-12% Western Hunter-Gatherer (ancient locals). This comes from sources like 23andMe's genetic groups, which cluster Southern Germans (e.g., Eastern Bavarian Highlands) with distinct dialects and ties to Alpine regions, but still under the broader "Germanic Europe" umbrella. A 2024 Instagram post from a genetics account (worldgenetics) pegs Bavarians at ~45% Yamnaya, ~43% Anatolian Farmer, and ~12% Hunter-Gatherer-solidly in the Germanic ballpark, not some fringe minority. Ancient DNA shows Iron Age Southern Germany (Hallstatt/La Tene Celts) had more "southern European" vibes-closer to modern French/Italians, with higher farmer ancestry and less steppe. Then, during the Early Middle Ages, a big wave of northern European (Germanic) ancestry hit: From ~3% in the Iron Age to ~62% by 500-1000 AD. This came from migrations out of Scandinavia/Northern Germany, making Alemannic/Bavarian pops genetically closer to Danes/Dutch than their Celtic forebears. A 2025 Discover Magazine piece confirms this spread of "Viking and Germanic DNA" south during the Iron Age/Migration Period. Southerners do have more Celtic ancestry than Northern Germans-that's because the south was prime Celtic turf (Hallstatt culture started there). Quora threads and YouTube breakdowns note higher farmer/Celtic signals in the Alps vs. the North Sea coast's stronger Nordic/Germanic pull. But "more Celtic" doesn't mean "less than 10% Germanic"-it's a gradient. Overall, Southern Germans cluster genetically with other Germans (Southwest/North Rhine), not as outliers. 23andMe even breaks it down into sub-groups like Southeastern Bavaria, with ties to Swabian dialects-still Germanic. If we're talking strict "post-Roman Germanic tribe input," it's way higher. Studies estimate 30-40% of white British DNA traces to Anglo-Saxons (similar Germanic stock), and Southern Germans got comparable influxes from Suebi/Alemanni. A Eupedia project highlights Southern Germany's Celtic base but with heavy Germanic overlay. TikTok breakdowns (yeah, even those) align: 46-48% Yamnaya for South Germans. No legit source pegs it at single digits unless they're hyper-focusing on ultra-pure "Scandinavian Iron Age" as the only "true Germanic." Sounds like G25schizo might be one of those posters who hyper-fixates on models showing Southerners as "80% Celtic + 10% Lombard + 10% Slavic" or whatever, to troll or push an agenda (e.g., "Real Germanics are only Nordics"). But G25's limitations bite hard here: Overfitting, poor sample quality, or ignoring admixture events can skew results. Real science (ancient DNA papers) shows a major Germanic shift south-your "more than 10%" hunch is spot on. You haven't been lied to by G25 itself; it's more like some posters wield it like a hammer when it's just a tape measure. If this is from a specific thread or you got coords/models to share, hit me with details-I can dig deeper or even run some code to simulate a basic model (though I'm no replacement for pro tools). Otherwise, chin up; genetics is messy, boards are messier. Southern Germans are plenty Germanic-beer, bratwurst, and all. Prost!
>Thank you Alyunfag, I guess G25schizo was full of shit this whole time! I feel so much better knowing that Southern Germans are more than 10% Germanic. Viva Espana!