№3316675[Quote]
>>3316663doesnt solve the accountability problem. if earth is a lesser imitation, humans are less spiritually clear, less rational, less informed, and less "real" than beings in heaven, why are they judged as if they had perfect clarity?
>>3316666nobody chooses their brain impulses intelligence trauma culture parents temptations ignorance or environment
№3316682[Quote]
>>3316675So should everyone start out from the exact same enviroment and parents or what? I think even coming from the worst influence you should be able to change ofc its a big disadvantage. Brain impulses dont have absolute power over your will that would make you similar to an AI. Even if your brain and inteligence tells you the best option you can still say otherwise because your not forced to do as your "brain" impulses tell you.
№3316686[Quote]
>>>3316663 (You)
>doesnt solve the accountability problem. if earth is a lesser imitation, humans are less spiritually clear, less rational, less informed, and less "real" than beings in heaven, why are they judged as if they had perfect clarity?
Humans have a spirit and are endowed with the likeness of god, this is what sets them apart from animals and makes them eternal. Theyre judged according to the decisions they make with the knowledge they have, not according to perfection. I would quote scripture but i dont remember verse by verse, i just know its in there.
№3316697[Quote]
>>3316675Also if we go by God is perfectly just in his judgements, enviromental disadvantages, grooming, bad parents and all that will account to God's judgement, but you cant hide behind bad enviroment since you have a spirit and free will
№3316700[Quote]
>>3316693Thats aryan though
№3316701[Quote]
>>3316682no not everyone needs the exact same parents. the point is that unequal starting conditions destroy the idea of a perfectly fair divine test
>>3316686why doesnt god give everyone equal knowledge? "humans have a spirit" doesnt solve the causal problem. it just moves it from biology to metaphysics
№3316708[Quote]
>>3316697after god accounts for genetics, trauma, grooming, parents, culture, ignorance, fear, temptation, mental health, what part is left that is purely self created and blameworthy?
№3316709[Quote]
>>3316701idk maybe if you knew everything you would just goon to it and be condemed
№3316717[Quote]
>>3316709so god hides knowledge because humans might misuse it then judges humans for acting with incomplete knowledge?
№3316724[Quote]
>>3316270rape and killing are good doe. god is on your side if you are the victor. god is victory. heil victory, heil yhwh nigga. sacrifice nigger babies to yhwh nigga. also egypt was a war. its not murder if its war
№3316727[Quote]
>>3316708You do not seriously think theese fully make your character, do you? Many disadvantageous people can overcome thoose disadvantages, and gifted people with good influence can still become rtarded freaks. Why would you think an all knowing God wouldnt make a fair judgement
№3316729[Quote]
>>3316700I want you to write me a short story without using language, and I want you to post it in this thread
№3316737[Quote]
>>3316727yes, they fully make your character unless you can name a third variable. genetics + environment includes your brain, temperament, trauma, parents, culture, memories, desires, fears, intelligence, impulse control, opportunities, beliefs and every experience that has ever shaped you
№3316740[Quote]
>>3316728i accept your concession
№3316749[Quote]
>why would a perfect god create imperfect humans, then punish them for being imperfect?
Cuz it's funny
№3316757[Quote]
>>3316737That would make you lack freewill and equal to an algorithm or AI. That would mean you cant blame anyone for their behaviour or actions because they're purely the results of all that you have listed.
№3316758[Quote]
We should refer to that third thing as consciousness rather than free will since you hate it or some.
№3316772[Quote]
Your consciousness makes you aware of all that sorrounds you and would shape you otherwise like training does to an AI. Your consciousness makes you able to draw your own judgements and decisions in spite of all the influence
№3316775[Quote]
>>3316757correct, ultimate blame collapses. thats the point
>That would make you lack freewill and equal to an algorithm or AIappeal to emotion babbling
>>3316758renaming it consciousness doesnt fix it blvd
№3316789[Quote]
>>3316775then where is this going you ask us to remove free will from the equation and then explain the missing part we just removed?
№3316796[Quote]
>>3316772thats still a process caused by something. your consciousness can compare impulses, reflect, resist pressure, sure. but how well it does that depends on things you didnt choose: intelligence, attention span, emotional regulation, fear level, trauma, education, memory, temperament and what options you can even imagine. so consciousness may be the place where influences are processed but its not magically outside said influence
№3316807[Quote]
>>3316789im not asking you to remove the missing part. im asking you to define it without just naming it
№3316815[Quote]
my contention is that the soul is a random number generator
№3316822[Quote]
>>3316796Yes it does its like using a computer that is your brain. and that brain processes all the impulses and influences but you have an ultimate say over everything. And it is possible to use a retarded brain better than an inteligent one. You also have a say in how you think and use up all that brainpower that may be naturaly gifted or trained.
№3316832[Quote]
Im not saying all thoose you said dont matter but there is clearly a third part and im just gonna put the definition of concsiousness here "the state of being aware of one's internal thoughts, sensations, and external environment" because its sound right
№3316866[Quote]
>>3316822thats the whole issue. youre describing a little pilot inside the skull that somehow stands outside the brain but you havent explained why it deserves blame.
blaming it eternally is still blaming a created thing for having the nature it was given
>And it is possible to use a retarded brain better than an inteligent oneit just means traits like discipline, humility, focus, pain tolerance, patience self awareness etcetc can matter more than raw IQ. also traits you didnt choose
>>3316832that definition proves my point. consciousness = being aware of your thoughts and sensations. but awareness is not authorship, being aware of anger doesnt mean you chose your anger, being aware of temptation doesnt mean you chose how tempting it feels etc
№3316910[Quote]
>>3316866> discipline, humility, focus, pain tolerance, patience self awarenessMany of theese traits you can CHOOSE to improve with your freewill, you might have starting values for theese atributes but your free to better them.
>little pilot inside the skull that somehow stands outside the brain but you havent explained why it deserves blame.But a perfect being with perfect judgement would take all the enviromental things into account in his judgements wouldnt He?
>being aware of anger doesnt mean you chose your anger, being aware of temptation doesnt mean you chose how tempting it feels etcCombine consciousness and free will then, but yeah things like instincts could overtake aspect of your body like they regularly do in lets say reflexes, but you still have authority in many other places
№3316917[Quote]
>>3316910and you can also detect when your instincts and such are overtaking your own will like you said with anger
№3316966[Quote]
>>3316910>Many of theese traits you can CHOOSE to improve with your freewill, you might have starting values for theese atributes but your free to better them.why does one person choose improvement and another doesnt? that choice depends on motivation, pain, fear, hope, intelligence, role models, shame, ambition, mental health, stress tolerance and past experiences. none of those are self created geg
>But a perfect being with perfect judgement would take all the enviromental things into account in his judgements wouldnt He?after god takes everything unchosen into account what exactly is left to blame
>but yeah things like instincts could overtake aspect of your body like they regularly do in lets say reflexesexactly. that proves the will is not some absolute ruler
>but you still have authority in many other placesauthority isnt the same as ultimate authorship. a person can deliberate and choose between motives but whichever motive wins still came from their character and desires
№3317106[Quote]
>>3316966Why cant all theese thongs plus free will not exist at the same time and not affevt similar things at the same time?
<I dont think this is going anywhere so im gonna ask do you belive you are just a bunch of RNG statistics put together and you have no will, or you do think theres a third element that makes us sentient and above a realistic AI algorythm you just want to find out what it is and thats why you're asking?
№3317147[Quote]
>>3317135we posted at the same time doe i thought u ragequit due to getting severely iqmogged
№3317174[Quote]
>>3317106they can all exist together. im not denying will or consciousness. im denying ultimate self authorship. even if theres a soul/consciousness/free will unless it chose its own nature desires clarity strength or starting conditions it still isnt ultimately responsible in the cosmic punishment sense
№3317180[Quote]
>>3317147So what it is? Not like i could give you credit for a good answer since its all your parents and enviroment's fault that your not a fucking retard and not on the same level as a degenerate troon or lolinigger
№3317192[Quote]
>>3317180a troon doesnt choose to get groomed while being a teenager by faggots
№3317201[Quote]
>>3317174Then what are we arguing about, the God's judgement thing? To that i said a perfect being makes perfect judgements that accounts to every non-voluntary or enviromental factor
№3317209[Quote]
>>3317192You just aknowleged theres will and counscious that exist along all thoose so yes you can still blame them and maybe they'll realise it at a later time and detroon and not necesserly because of an other outer influence
№3317210[Quote]
>>3317201correct, thats exactly what we're arguing about. whats left after god accounts for every non voluntary factor?
№3317218[Quote]
>>3317210>im not denying will or consciousnessThis little bit
№3317238[Quote]
>>3317209religious niggas really blame trannies for getting groomed and not the groomers themselves
>>3317218i acknowledge will and consciousness exist. i dont acknowledge that theyre magically uncaused
№3317254[Quote]
life is a test for whose truly worthy of heaven
№3317275[Quote]
>>3317238>religious niggas really blame trannies for getting groomed and not the groomers themselvesWhy should we blame the groomers if they're also just victims of other influence? Groomers and troons can share accountability and blame we dont have to think in absolutes.
>i acknowledge will and consciousness exist. i dont acknowledge that theyre magically uncausedWhat do you mean by will then?
Do you think free wills a thing even if its limited by all the ither factors it has to co-operate with?
№3317277[Quote]
It's not a test, he already knows the outcome. Rather, it is to make you see you had a chance.