â„–3242420[Quote]
So why do socialists oppose the petty bourgeoisie?
Principled socialists should oppose the petty bourgeois just as much as the big capitalists (haute bourgeois), because both are part of the larger owning class that maintains capitalism. Small business owners are no less exploitative than big business, and because they are naturally outcompeted by larger, more efficient enterprises, they are often driven to squeeze their workers even more ruthlessly. As this article
https://jacobin.com/2018/01/small-businesses-workers-wages shows, small enterprises offer worse working conditions. As a class the petty bourgeois are the enemies of socialism, because socialism would necessarily require them to surrender their power and capital.
To quote Pannekoek, a founder of Council Communism:
'So long as the great mass of the people were independent producers Socialism could exist only as the utopia of individual theorizers or little groups of enthusiasts; it could not be the practical program of a great class. Independent producers do not need Socialism; they do not even want to hear of it. They own their means of production and these are to them the guarantee of a livelihood. Even the sad position into which they are forced by competition with the great capitalists can hardly render them favourable to Socialism. It makes them only the more eager to become great capitalists themselves. They may wish, occasionally, to limit the freedom of competition - perhaps under the name of Socialism; but they do not want to give up their own independence or freedom of competition. So long, therefore, as there exists a strong middle class it acts as a protecting wall for the capitalists against the attacks of the workers. If the workers demand the socialization of the means of production, they find in this middle class just as bitter an opponent as in the capitalists themselves.'
â„–3242430[Quote]
Small businesses are theoretically achievable by the vast majority of the populace and generally return their revenue back to their local community. Corporations are out of the reach of all but a select few, and hoover up ludicrous amounts of wealth that is basically never seen again. It's literally the lesser evil.
â„–3242438[Quote]
I don't think modern communists/socialists even understand their own ideology.
â„–3242439[Quote]
The petty bourgeoisie and fascism
As a political class it is also the petty bourgeoisie who are the early supporters of fascism and reaction. In comparison to the haute bourgeois they are first affected at any economic downturn, and the first to be affected by worker militancy; one strike could ruin them. Because of this precarious position between big business competitors and their own workers, the petty bourgeoisie forms the essential mass base for fascism. This is true today as it was a century ago. For example: small business owners represented 26% of the January 6th rioters in America, despite being only 10% of the population.
This does not mean that every small business owner is Hitler, it means the underlying mechanisms of class society make certain opinions more attractive. There very well may be socialists among the small business owners, materialist analysis doesn't negate outliers, Engels for example was a factory owner and a communist. However on a mass scale, we can see that certain classes have certain objective interests that push and pull them in different ways. As Marx said:
"Men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past."
In conclusion, I want to reiterate that as a class the petty bourgeoisie are the opponents of socialism, because socialism necessarily threatens their power and the small priveliges they are afforded in capitalism. Likewise, we socialists should be enemies of the petty bourgeoisie, as we are enemies of the haute bourgeoisie, because the petty bourgeoisie has to be fought and abolished to end capitalism and class society. Whether small business or big business, it is the same social ill of capitalist business.
â„–3242445[Quote]
>>3242444Completely missed the point of what I said award
â„–3242447[Quote]
>>3242438Like most people think socialism is when you just "eat the rich" aka tax them more and form a welfare state.
â„–3242458[Quote]
>>3242447Like I'll say to these college kids "I thought socialism was when the people seize the means of production" and they look at me like I'm retarded and say not really.
â„–3242468[Quote]
>>3242458To be fair, the way I was taught was that that description better fits communism, whereas socialism is kind of a midpoint between capitalism and communism. Personally I think it's retarded for private entities to control basic necessities like drinking water. There's no reason we can't have commerce for shit that isn't necessary to live, as that does naturally motivate people to work and improve their lives, but I think it's kind of fucked that if you don't have any money you just fucking die.
â„–3242469[Quote]
>>3242468If i'm not mistaken, Socialism is the means to Communism
â„–3242472[Quote]
>>3242467mario and luigi are my very best friends media pending approval and it never ends
â„–3242479[Quote]
>>3242467thoughts on socialist economic policies besides central planning
â„–3242482[Quote]
>>3242468I thought communism was the abolishment of private property.
â„–3242489[Quote]
>>3242482In fairness there's like a million different interpretations of communism, and commies famously can't remotely agree on any of them.
â„–3242494[Quote]
>>3242489Marxism-Leninism is the most popular and the one mainly referred to when people speak of the blanket term "Communism".
â„–3242495[Quote]
>>3242489I thought it's just:
>No private property.>No classes.>You will be paid according to your ability and need. â„–3242498[Quote]
>>3242496Isaac's funny. I like him
>>3242495These are the cliff's notes, AFAIK. It also usually comes with a centrally planned economy which has many issues enumerated by Mises and Hayek and others.
â„–3242500[Quote]
>>3242498I'm aware it on paper comes in many forms but I thought those are what's necessary for a thing to be a communism.
â„–3242503[Quote]
>>3242495Traditionally yes, but most modern quasi-commies I've talked to have come to the realization that true forms of communism aren't viable in our society's current form. It might be doable post-scarcity, but right now a milder form is much more palatable and still has the potential to reduce suffering.
â„–3242504[Quote]
>>3242500There aren't exactly prerequisites beyond those given by marx. There is to my knowledge criteria for what counts as a communist society which I think is like 14 criteria. Those things are mostly what forms the basis of communism though yeah
â„–3242513[Quote]
>>3242503Really? I just see ancap goyim.
â„–3242519[Quote]
>>3242505I honestly thought more would catch on since he literally has a name. If it's some nameless nobody baiting people, sure, but he has a name. You can SEE he's a serial baiter and people still fall for it.. LOL
â„–3242520[Quote]
>>3242513I live in a blue state and have a bunch of friends who live out near Seattle/Portland, I've had more than my fair share of discussions with quasi-commies geg
â„–3242536[Quote]
>>3242532No, Bad Empanada is an Australian living in Argentina
â„–3242549[Quote]
s
â„–3242556[Quote]
>>3242524This is literally what it's about for turd worldists: they use communism or Islam or literally any vehicle (doesn't matter at all) in their craven quest for revenge against the people who recently taught their grandfathers how to eat with a fork and knife and shit in a flush toilet and clean their filthy disgusting bodies.
It's just pure rage and an ordeal of civility, they don't even care about the famine and massacres (they always had those before the colonials came, they never gave a single shit about them when it was their own kind and they didn't humiliate them by teaching them to wear a decent suit)
â„–3242566[Quote]
>>3242548In the AmeriKKKan context, Black and Hispanic lumpenproles can be of good use to intimidate and demoralize the white middle class. But beyond that, they're useless and do more damage to their own than to whites.
â„–3242570[Quote]
in my eggsperience working for small businesses as a low level wagie is 1000x worse than waging for a big chain. they kike you way harder, they are insanely petty, they can't contain their delusions of grandeur. at least corpos have a process they abide by that pretends to respect you
â„–3242576[Quote]
>>3242570I've basically had the exact opposite experience, but it REALLY depends on the particular small business. Corpos just fuck you over in a predictable way.
â„–3242585[Quote]
>>3242420 (OP)Because they don't want solutions they want revolutions. Marxists' big fantasy is everyone being so impoverished they have nothing to lose and start murdering the elites.
â„–3242586[Quote]
>>3242566Well since leftism is a fraudulent activity by the elites, they don't really care if they do damage to their own. They can blame that on the middle class yet again (redlining, white flight, other twisted fictions) and re-direct the lumpen rage back at the intended target of leftism and communism (normal productive people who are too uppity and ask for too high a standard of living)
â„–3242588[Quote]
>>3242585No he just wanted everyone to be impoverished
â„–3242594[Quote]
>>3242588>communism is when no GoyPhone 666 Pro MaxRetard.
â„–3242596[Quote]
>>3242420 (OP)why does the gigachad look like a soyjak in your image
â„–3242598[Quote]
>>3242576i mean if you're working for chill bill's shrimp taco and surf board shop in half moon bay then yeah thats a fun little gig. but being a cashier at peanuthead nepobaby's liquor store in bumfuck nowhere or being the overnight cleaner at your local golf clubhouse is hell on earth and you will be tortured by xoomer kikes for absolutely no reason. flipping boigahs at mcwagie's is far preferable
â„–3242615[Quote]
>>3242598I mean McDonald's probably isn't the best example because they'll rape you even harder than the worst small business; the fact that they're franchises means you'll usually get the worst of both worlds. That said, yeah, small businesses tend to either be amazing or utter dogshit with very little in between.
â„–3242691[Quote]
I feel the key thing is the world isn't perfect, there's no way to organize the puzzle pieces at the moment so everyone wins. Most people accept this but communists think there's a way they can do it.
â„–3242749[Quote]
>>3242614Geg it's useful when they're transparent like this
â„–3242753[Quote]
>>3242744Then don't say stupid shit like "he wanted everyone to be poor" you dumb nigger
â„–3242759[Quote]
>>3242691Communism is geneologically descended from 19th century utopianism, someday hopefully we can finally shake off that yoke of thought… It was always terribly flawed
â„–3242764[Quote]
>>3242753QuoteRape you dog-brained retard you're always coming in far too angry for no reason and several dollars short
â„–3242770[Quote]
>>3242764I'm angry because I deal with borderline drooling retards who can't follow 3 sentences of instructions every day
â„–3242777[Quote]
>>3242770There is more hope for the fool than for a man wise in his own eyes.
â„–3242788[Quote]
>>3242770Sounds frustrating but you're exactly that to me when I say something offhand and you reinterpret it with some random stuff nobaldi said. I meant Marx's ideology was driven by resentment and misanthropy generally, he just wanted to cause suffering as revenge against the world, and all the high-minded justifications to "fight for the masses" were simply an alibi for that core drive, since being obsessed with himself he had to not only punish the world but feel like a saint for doing so. He wanted to tear the world down, he wasn't actually serious about re-building it in a more perfect form
â„–3242794[Quote]
>>3242777We're all fools here
â„–3242797[Quote]
>>3242788Quoterape always had a problem with anger
choosing to be mad at the world
there is no room for discussion with anger
â„–3242798[Quote]
>>3242759Communism is an inevitable idea (to be thought of) if it wasn't Marx it'd be some other shmuck.
â„–3242800[Quote]
>>3242794das aryan shemmycuck
â„–3242814[Quote]
>>3242788In fairness I've seen enough retards genuinely pull out the "communism means everyone is poor" argument that I had reason to believe that was the route you were taking.
â„–3242828[Quote]
OP is b8ing