â„–3004435[Quote]
chirstains can't respond to this….
â„–3004440[Quote]
chrikeCUCKs
â„–3004468[Quote]
>>3004315 (OP)>every kike writing in the talmud was written post 200 ADchristians don't believe in kike dribble, retard
â„–3004572[Quote]
>>3004445mary being 12 when betrothed and pregnant with jesus (standard 1st century jewish custom) while christian traditions claim joseph was 80 years old address your own sculpture first
â„–3004622[Quote]
>>3004468even doe torah numbers deut written centuries BCE which christians accept as divine scripture in the old Testament
â„–3004681[Quote]
minnesotan shoul respond to this
>>3004572in all honestly, this is a shit argument
marys age is never stated in the bible, only in forged or "pseudoinfo-biograohical" texts written by people who werent even alive during the time of mary, and most of the age debate comes from speculations based in what the joos USUALLY did at the time, if im not wrong joseph and mary arent excellent examples for humanity, so nobody has to replicate their actions, the age difference between mary and joseph isnt stated either, and mary was impregnated by in a non sexual way
â„–3004697[Quote]
how do christcucks even worship their jew pedophile GAWD
â„–3004740[Quote]
>>3004572mary was 16, nigger.
>while christian traditions claim joseph was 80 years oldactual nigger lie, going off of jesus' age and the short lives people lived its impossible
>>3004622the iewe's didn't write the torah down until post 200 AD you nigger, thats when rabbi's started saying its
>"TECHNICALLY"okay to sleep with a 3 yearold. this wasn't belief before then and it violates israelite laws on rape and pre-marital sex
â„–3004749[Quote]
>>3004740nothing reliable states she was 16 either
â„–3004760[Quote]
>all theistoids are pedos
water is wet
â„–3004832[Quote]
>>3004681jewish customs girls betrothed soon after puberty around 12 men a bit older to 20 30 put mary likely in her early mid teens when betrothed and pregnant with joseph probably in his 20 or so not a massive gap and no consummation issue since conception was miraculous but that's exactly the parallel aishas ages (6 at nikah 9 at consummation) come from hadith not the quran itself and many muslims contextualize it via 7th century arabian norms (early betrothal common) or debate the exact numbers from other reports if we're dismissing marys speculated teen age as "speculation based on what
(((jews))) usually did" and irrelevant because 'nobody has to replicate" it is the same logic applies to muhammads marriage it's historical practice not mandatory
â„–3004850[Quote]
>>3004760atheist chads always win
â„–3004923[Quote]
>>3004832false comparison.
>jewish customs girls betrothed soon after puberty around 12 men a bit older to 20 30 put mary likely in her early mid teens when betrothed and pregnant with joseph probably in his 20 or so not a massive gap and no consummation issue since conception was miraculousif i remember right, 12 was around the minimum age for marriage at the time, but that doesnt mean they only married 12 year old girls, she could have been 18, 17,16, 15, 14, but the point is nobody knows, you have no concrete evidence of her age at all at best you can speculate
>but that's exactly the parallel aishas ages (6 at nikah 9 at consummation)Youre forgetting Muhammad was around 50, and there was sex involved
>come from hadith not the quran itselfThe Hadith it comes from are considered reliable, unlike the age of mary who comes from some later biographies based on the protovangelium of james, which is not canon and unreliable
>because 'nobody has to replicate" it is the same logic applies to muhammads marriage21-31 Indeed, in the Messenger of Allah you have an excellent example
so hes an excellent examplary, which means his actions must therefore be examplary for muslims right?
â„–3004933[Quote]
>>3004315 (OP)1st image - where is the evil of raping them or keeping them as sex slaves implied, for a good man read that and sees that virgin females should be spared and raised as if your own daughters, to be protected.
2nd verse. raping should be punishable by death if forced, if this is a legal technicality, then a fine and lower social standing.
4th image. do you really mean to try to play the devil lawyer and say that disposal of children here means to throw children into trash? when the last sentence itself speaks of children seeking the direction of their parents??? yeah children should not throw themselves away to trivial sexual pursuits, but should seek council of those wiser and learned.
i have once again btfo'd the antichrist.
â„–3004962[Quote]
>>3004844hebrew includes young dependents and interpretations from innocent noncombatants to girls spared for integration or marriage (per deut 21 rules requiring humane treatment of captives no rape allowed) it was moses specific command in that war god ordered vengeance on midian for seducing israel into idolatry but moses escalated the killings not a blanket rape virgins forever rule the talmuds three years and a day bit is rabbinic halakhic on ritual purity tied to ancient beliefs about hymen regeneration like finger in the eye analogy not biblical endorsement of pedophilia it's post 200 AD legal theory no prisons in ancient israel torah used fines flogging death or servitude instead of jails so yeah 50 shekels was a massive fine
â„–3004963[Quote]
>>300492314 was the age of betrothal- which lasted a year or more
â„–3005148[Quote]
>>3004923(as i said 1st century Jewish customs where girls betrothed post puberty around 12 14 often marrying soon after scholars like britannica and others confirm this as typical not outlier) but speculation on historical norms is exactly what we do for aisha too hadith sahih bukhari say 6 at betrothal 9 at consummation when muhammad was 53 age gap and consummation? yes but ancient arabian norms allowed early marriages post puberty too just like jewish ones hadith aren't quran but theyre authoritative for most muslims as sunnah 33:21 calls muhammad an excellent example doesn't mean muslims must replicate every single action of his life including his marriage to aisha at 9 (per hadith) tafsirs and other islam scholarship interpret it as emulating his character piety patience worship, leadership and moral conduct especially in the context of battle of the trench where the verse was revealed not a chart for every personal detail like specific marriage age
â„–3005213[Quote]
>That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.
Genesis 2:24
>Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.
1 Peter 3:7
>Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them."
Colossians 3:19
>For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality
Thessalonians 4:3
>If anyone causes one of these little ones-those who believe in me-to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
Matthew 18:6
>That's for leading young believers astray
Yeah that's what leading someone to sexual immorality means.
The Midianites, alongside the Moabites, enticed the Israelites to sin through idolatry and sexual immorality.
Midiantes and Moabites would have orgies and (probably human) sacrifices together in Numbers 25. In Levantine Bronze Age warfare, boys would almost always revolt and take revenge on the other tribes after the enemies killed their fathers whom were warriors, so they were all killed. The women that were virgins were the ones that did not have sex with the Israelite men, boys and girls. The reason the Moabite and Midianite women (and children) were enticing boys and men of Israel to have sex with them, is because they wanted to get them to worship Baal Peor, a demon.
>When Israel lived in Shittim, the people began to commit sexual immorality with the daughters of Moab. These women invited the people to the sacrifices of their gods; then the people ate and bowed down to their gods. When Israel joined themselves to Baal Peor, the anger of the Lord flared up against Israel.
Numbers 25:1-4
>GOD said to Moses, "Take all the leaders of Israel and kill them by hanging, leaving them publicly exposed in order to turn GOD's anger away from Israel.
Numbers 25:5
God told Moses to hang his own people for sleeping with Midianite and Moabite children and women.
>he got up from among the assembly, took a javelin in his hand, and went after the Israelite man into the tent and thrust through the Israelite man and into the woman's abdomen.
Numbers 25:8
They were stabbing them to death too.
Because the midianites and moabs were having sex among each other too, with midianite and moabite men raping the women and girls, the less sinful pure ones had to be spared and saved from the moabites. It was non-virgin girls and women who seduced the Israelites, so as punishment they were slain and those who didnt were not slain.
It'd be counterintiutive to execute your own men for sleeping with midianite and moabites , then tell them to sleep with them…
â„–3005258[Quote]
>>3004933numbers 31:18 "keep alive for yourselves" (after killing non virgins and boys) distributes the 32000 virgin girls as captives half to warriors half to the community with tribute to priests (numbers 31:25-47) biblical rules for female war captives (deut 21:10-14) allow marriage after a mourning period but the text doesn't frame it as adoption or pure protection historians rightly note it includes integration via servitude or marriage in a conquest context,l not modern foster care on Deut 22:28-29, even if the verb isnt always violent "rape" (some see seduction and coercion) the forced lifelong marriage + 50 shekel fine punishes the man by binding him forever while securing the woman's provision in a no welfare society it's responsibility not a legal technicality reward and "disposal of children" in matthew henry's commentary on 1 cor 7:36-40 he means parental authority in guiding marriages (kids follow wise parental direction not throw themselves away' to casual pursuits)
â„–3005263[Quote]
Is this based and christpilled/pol/troons?
â„–3005264[Quote]
>>3005148>but speculation on historical norms is exactly what we do for aisha tooNo? Speculation would be when you dont have any concrete evidence of it, so you just theorize something based on what they usually did back then, Aishas age is based on Hadith, with full chains of narration that go back to Aisha herself thorugh several reliable narrators.
> calls muhammad an excellent example doesn't mean muslims must replicate every single action of his life including his marriage to aisha at 9 (per hadith)If his actions are examplary, then the things he has done should be examplary, there is also a Quran verse which states he is of "outstanding moral character" and this is a text in an universal book, so muhammads moral character and actions should be able to hold up in the 20th century for muslims to emulate right? You might not have to emulate every single action if you dont want to, but ask yourself, would there be a problem if someone else did? after all they would be following the example of your prophet whom allah said was examplary.
By the way, the whole Aisha stuff was completely avoidable if Allah hadnt revealed her to him in a dream, like completely avoidable, allah wanted him to marry a child
>tafsirs and other islam scholarship interpret it as emulating his character piety patience worship, leadership and moral conduct do you think that marring a child is of good moral conduct
â„–3005285[Quote]
>>3005213You're ignoring how common sex-slavery is in the old testament
â„–3005381[Quote]
>>3005264no aisha age come from hadith (s ahih bukhari with isnads back to her) but even reliable hadith are historical reports not mandates like the quran 33:21 excellent example was revealed during the battle of the trench tafsirs ibn kathir and jalalayn and maududi urging emulation in patience steadfastness piety and facing trials not every personal action like specific marriages scholars interpret as following his moral character (like i mentioned worship leadership and sunnah) in general prayer ethics not repilcation of every histrical detail (polygamy limit war contexts or marriage norms vary by ijtihad today) quran 68:4 praise his moral character not a claim that every act is timelessly ideal by 21st century standard modern fatwas (al zhar deputy grand imam) set marriage at 18 with consent rejecting child marriage as harmful many scholars (yaqeen omar suleiman) contextualize aishas marriage viaa era norms puberty maturity not mandatory if emulating meant marrying 9 year olds today itd be universal its not muslim countries ban it and for the dream hadith say muhammad saw aisha in a dream presented by an angel as his wife interpreted as divine indication not >Allah wanted him to marry a child
as coercion it happened in a 7th century context where early betrothal was normal across cultures even 19th century where delawares age of consent was set at 7 years old
â„–3005413[Quote]
>>3005381they are differen from historical reports DOE, most historical reports are just x said x, hadith have thsese complex isnads which go from narrator from narrator and the one about aisha is reported by herself
>following his moral characternigga dont we all agree that his moral character wasnt so good considering he had sex with a 9 year old
>dey make aoc 18 in muslim countrybecause they are secular and dont want to get into international trouble, places like afghanistan (under strict sharia btw) and if im not wrong yemen legalize child marriage
>it happened in 7th centurybut why would allah tell him to amrry a 9 year old? like he wasnt just letting is happen he practically directly told him "marry that little girl" when we can all acknoweldge that it was completely immoral, he could have just told him to amrry someone else? or keep her as a companion instead of fucking her?
â„–3005456[Quote]
>>3005381marrying 6 year olds, and fucking them when 9 you mean***
not
>" if emulating meant marrying 9 year olds today itd be universal "stop trying to hide the age of marriage
â„–3005479[Quote]
>>3005413You're begging the question
â„–3005488[Quote]
I hate comnunists but Stalin was right about religgers
â„–3005497[Quote]
>>3005413they're still historical accounts of 7th century events not eternal divine commands like the holy book as i said scholars debate exact ages timelines (some say aisha was older based on battle participation) but even accepting 9 at consummation its contexted as post puberty norm then not immoral by era standardssimilar to ancient jewish roman customs
also where did you get that information that muhammad had sex with her also moral character is for integrity mercy etc not mandating replication of every biographical detail tafsir emulate virtues like kindness justice not specific marriages said that many times (which served alliances like with abu bakr) also taliban has no formal minimum same with yemen also morocco 18 turkey 18 Indonesia 19 or 18 not just secular pressure even sharia based ones like malaysia and saudi arabia 18 for maturity and harm prevention
â„–3005501[Quote]
>>3005456respond to my last reppey to you first
â„–3005529[Quote]
>>3005381>no aisha age come from hadith<Sahih al-Bukhari (Book 62, Hadith 64)<"The Prophet married me when I was six years old, and consummated the marriage with me when I was nine years old."<Sahih Muslim (Book 8, Hadith 3311)<"Aisha reported that the Messenger of Allah married her when she was six, and he consummated the marriage when she was nine."those hadiths are Sahih to mudslimes nigger
â„–3005538[Quote]
>>3005501here's my reppy, you cannot refute a hadith, especially the #1 hadith of the islamic world, and several other hadiths verify it, so it's more than one LAHHA WORSHIPPING SOURCE saying the same thing, again
â„–3005544[Quote]
>>3005529how is it that every fucking shitskin who uses white mans computers, and whitemans language, and white mans internet, has the gall to dictate to white people how they should interpret historical evidence…
we are superior, let us interpret yours for you, our colleges are the best anyway even if filled with atheists
â„–3005547[Quote]
>>3005529okay? the hadiths are sahih everyphono knows that what's your actual point here?
â„–3005553[Quote]
>>3005547mudslimes believe the hadiths are sahih and not only that, they corroborate each-other
â„–3005565[Quote]
>>3005544irrelevant with the discussion post this facebook xoster
>>3005538not what i meant the i made reppey goes along with >numbers 31:18 "keep alive for yourselves" (after killing non virgins and boys) distributes the 32000 virgin girls as captives half to warriors half to the community with tribute to priests (numbers 31:25-47) biblical rules for female war captives (deut 21:10-14) allow marriage after a mourning period but the text doesn't frame it as adoption or pure protection historians rightly note it includes integration via servitude or marriage in a conquest context,l not modern foster care on Deut 22:28-29, even if the verb isnt always violent "rape" (some see seduction and coercion) the forced lifelong marriage + 50 shekel fine punishes the man by binding him forever while securing the woman's provision in a no welfare society it's responsibility not a legal technicality reward and "disposal of children" in matthew henry's commentary on 1 cor 7:36-40 he means parental authority in guiding marriages (kids follow wise parental direction not throw themselves away' to casual pursuits)
â„–3005571[Quote]
>>3005565shut your whore mouth shitskin islam cannot withstand the questions of the internet, also there is no historical proof of mecca during mohammads time
â„–3005575[Quote]
>>3005565never forget that you are not good looking not only by western standards, but even by middle eastern standards, and fucking humble yourself and toss your ass up or whatever you retards do while praying
â„–3005577[Quote]
>>3005497Theyre not commandments, god doesnt command you to marry a 9 year old, thats true, but the fact that muhammad is universally an excellent example of outstanding moral character for all muslims to follow, then does that mean that marrying a child is not really haram?
Can you condemn muhammads marriage to aisha and call it immoral as a muslim? even if it happened in the 7th century, we all know now that marrying children was and is wrong.
These hsitorical accounts go back to AISHA herself SHE says shes 9, if youre going to reject these as unreliable speculation then reject the entire sunnah.
>where did you get that info he had sexnigger consummation means he had sex with her, theres even a hadith that instead of consummation says intercouse
>muh moral character and excellent example in the universal book was ONLY referring to the things he did I LIKE everything he did i DIDNT LIKE isnt examplary, because i said so, hes still an excellent example of morla character anf im not gonna say what he did was wrong btw â„–3005588[Quote]
>>3005580>it has a meme on it's pc and it thinks it's a good comeback, while it's genetics are mixed with african slaves from the 6th, 7th, 8th centuriesgood on you nigger
â„–3005590[Quote]
>>3005553no ones refuting the reports as historical fact marge take the meds
â„–3005592[Quote]
>>3005590a shitskin from the middle east like you has advice for westerners about historical inquiry? interesting…
â„–3005610[Quote]
>>3005590if muhammad is infallible and everything he does is righteous, islam promotes it
and that is why many mudslimes think its okay. saying you shouldn't rape a 9 yearold is illegal in islam geg
â„–3005612[Quote]
>>3004315 (OP)>god decided to talk to uneducated shitskins and tell them that they are the real chosen to teach the worldyou're pedophiles
you're warlords
you're whoremongers
fuck you and your countries
â„–3005615[Quote]
>>3005577ibn kathirs tafsir refers to following the prophet in steadfastness patience remembrance of allah and conduct during trials (revealed in the ahzab battle context) not mandating replication of every personal action is it that hard to comprehend
â„–3005634[Quote]
>>3005615'consummated' (bana biha) meaning sexual intercourse yes authentic reports from aisha herself but as historical fact in 7th century norms (post puberty betrothal common no contemporary criticism even from enemies) it's not seen as immoral then modern Muslims don't call it immoral because judging by today's standards ignores context scholars affirm it's descriptive of era not prescriptive child marriage is a sin today due to harm maturity requirements and maslaha (public good) rejecting the hadith entirely? No one does that it would undermine sunnah but emulating means his character
â„–3005637[Quote]
>>3005634>dude its normal to have sex with 9 year olds int he 7th centuryno it's not, and it's not normal now
â„–3005656[Quote]
>>3005637no one does now either did you even read what I said
â„–3005658[Quote]
>>3005549watch this fucking shitskin grab this historians hand and try to force him to kneel lower
i fucking hate camel jockeys
â„–3005660[Quote]
>>3005656fuck what you said it's not logical
â„–3005664[Quote]
>>3005634so its immoral now but it wasnt immoral back then, so do you think that muhammads marriage to aisha was wrong, or was it okay? from a 21st century perspective
>>3005615you conveniently cropped out the part where ibn kathir also states
33.21-22 Kathir - Ibn Al Kathir
The Command to follow the Messenger
This Ayah is an important principle, to follow the Messenger of Allah in all his words, and deeds, etc.
â„–3005710[Quote]
>>3005664from a 21st century perspective marrying and consummating with a 9 year old is immoral and illegal in virtually every society today because to modern understandings of consent child development psychological harm and extended childhood no serious person defends it now, doe muhammads marriage to aisha (per authentic hadith she narrated herself 6 at nikah 9 at consummation) occurred in 7th century arabia during post puberty betrothal and consummation around 9 15 was standard and uncontroversial across cultures (arabian roman byzantine jews etc) tied to physical maturity short lifespans ibn kathirs tafsir on does call it "an important principle to follow the messenger of god in all his words and deeds etc" the verse was revealed during the battle of the trench which i said in different replies if you didn't read it
â„–3005720[Quote]
>>3005670I literally said "morocco 18 turkey 18 Indonesia 19 or 18 not just secular pressure even sharia based ones like malaysia and saudi arabia 18 for maturity and harm prevention"
â„–3005733[Quote]
>>3005720who the fuck do you think you are coming online and shit posting some third world religion that's on par with african voodoo compared to the west, we have all of the merits of our world and inventions and military superiority over you, kneel down and repent, you failed as a sub species
â„–3005734[Quote]
>>3005710but the verse was revealed during the battle of the trench which i said in different replies if you didn't read it*
â„–3005741[Quote]
>>3005733are you unironically saying this or just baiting
â„–3005766[Quote]
>>3005710okay, so if child marriage bad it damages child and has always done that
then muhammad marriage to aisha was wrong immoral and bad
>does call it "an important principle to follow the messenger of god in all his words and deeds etc" tbut then youre conceding the verse implies you should follow all of his words and deeds, then how is from an islamic persoective marrying a child haram after all it was one of his many deeds??
>LE SHORT LIFESPANhalf of his wives were like 25 nigger none of this would have happened if allah didnt tell him to fuck a 9 year old
â„–3005828[Quote]
>>3005720the governments do this because of international pressure they would face if it wss legalized, it has nothing to do with religion, relatively recently in iraq they tried to legalize child marriage, lowering the aoc to 9 but they folded due to international pressure
the "religious majority government does allows/prohibits something, means it must be allowed or prohibited by the religion" is kind of a stupid claim, i mean greece has christianity as state religion but legalizes gay marriage (completely against the religion)