[ home / overboard ] [ soy / qa / raid / r ] [ craft ] [ int / pol ] [ a / an / asp / biz / mtv / r9k / tech / v / sude / x ] [ q / news / chive / rules / pass / bans / status ] [ wiki / booru / irc ]

A banner for soyjak.party

/pol/ - International /Pol/itics & /Bant/er

Politics & countrywars
Catalog
Name
Email
Subject
Comment
Flag
File
Password (For file deletion.)

File: 1767663821308e.png 📥︎ (2.35 MB, 2211x2250) ImgOps

 â„–2949842[Quote]

Socialists of /pol/, how do you refute the ECP?
Pic unrelated.

 â„–2949854[Quote]

idk bro

 â„–2949892[Quote]

File: Alunya1.png 📥︎ (163.92 KB, 512x512) ImgOps

>>2949842 (OP)
The ecp is pretty irrelevant because its just an invented capitalist boogeyman to scare off any attempts at reforming society.

 â„–2949896[Quote]

>>2949842 (OP)
>Socialists trying to refuse any form of anti-socialist logic (basic reality)

 â„–2949901[Quote]

>>2949892
Can you like, refuse it instead of just calling it bullshit, give a actual argument

 â„–2949962[Quote]

>>2949892
larpini baitini chuds or however your fake language goes

 â„–2949983[Quote]

>>2949901
Refute* it
No need to thank me

 â„–2949995[Quote]

File: 1755444596312h.png 📥︎ (1.81 MB, 688x1504) ImgOps

>>2949892
A literal non argument

 â„–2950029[Quote]

Honestly it's the main thing preventing me from becoming a socialist, I really wish there was a way to dismantle it.

 â„–2950049[Quote]

up

 â„–2950067[Quote]

>>2949842 (OP)
United states of walmart or something

 â„–2950070[Quote]

>>2950067
But they still rely on external price signals

 â„–2950078[Quote]

>>2950070
I'm aware of how much of a fail it is

 â„–2950092[Quote]

>>2949901
they cannot. to even entertain the question is antithetical to their ideology

 â„–2950130[Quote]

>>2950092
Hakim did make a video on it but it fucking sucks

 â„–2950176[Quote]

>>2950130
He's right in some aspects such as price signals not dealing with climate change for example but he still does not deal with the actual problem

 â„–2950206[Quote]

up

 â„–2950214[Quote]

>>2949892

didn't you make a whole thread about being a weak ass wompa and rescinding the whole alunyalarp

 â„–2950215[Quote]

fake

 â„–2950227[Quote]

File: slf.gif 📥︎ (828.7 KB, 536x706) ImgOps

>fake

 â„–2950269[Quote]

File: pepe-pepe-coffee.gif 📥︎ (79.03 KB, 112x112) ImgOps

>>2949842 (OP)
Markets already aren't perfect calculators and constantly misallocate capital. Bubbles, crashes, overproduction, underinvestment happen all the time
reddit space
Large corporations already plan internally, they don't run a mini stock market between every warehouse. Hierarchy + logistics coordination works at massive scale
reddit space
Modern socialist systems like China use markets as tools under state direction. We may not be at a point where markets have outlived their usefulness, but maintaining political control over capital is possible
reddit space
We now have real-time data, advanced logistics algorithms, machine learning, and input-output modeling. the computational constraint argument is getting weaker every year

 â„–2950304[Quote]

>>2950269
Market sef no be perfect calculator like that, e dey always misallocate capital scatter-scatter. Bubble, crash, overproduction, underinvestment - all these things dey happen every time.
Big big companies sef don dey plan everything inside dem own already, dem no dey run small-small stock market between every warehouse. Hierarchy plus logistics coordination dey work well well for big big scale.
Modern socialist system like China dey use market as tool under government control. We never reach point where market don tire finish or no useful again, but to keep political control over capital na possible ting.
Now we get real-time data, advanced logistics algorithm, machine learning, plus input-output ting. That old talk say 'computer no fit handle am' dey weak pass every year.

 â„–2950353[Quote]

>>2950269
>Shows example of unfree markets
>Shows example of price signals in use
>Shows example of non-socialist system

 â„–2950407[Quote]

>>2950269
Even if flawed, markets are still better than what any planner could ever hope to achieve, as they already "compute" for lack of a better word all the needs in the economy
<
Those corporations run on external price signals
<
I agree
<
Even a supermachine needs some sort of value system to calculate the worth of one type of good in respect to another different one, which is the role that prices fill.

 â„–2950559[Quote]

>>2950353
>>Shows example of unfree markets
Every time markets concentrate wealth, those same actors use that wealth to shape regulation in their favor. A "pure free market" would require actors powerful enough to dominate markets voluntarily not using that power which is structurally unrealistic.
>>Shows example of price signals in use
Yes which shows planning + markets coexist at scale. Even if planning needs price reference.
>>Shows example of non-socialist system
The system shows large-scale planning + political control over capital is possible. Whether you label it socialism is secondary to the calculation argument.
>>2950407
>Even a supermachine needs some sort of value system to calculate the worth of one type of good in respect to another different one, which is the role that prices fill.
This is true, in theory there could be different value metrics to be used, but this is so theoretic that it's probably not worth discussing.

 â„–2950648[Quote]

>>2950559
It's not theoretical, it's essential for the machine to run in the first place. How would it decide to invest in the production of one good or the other? Without a system of value to bridge the gap, no machine or person can make a rational choice.


[Return][Catalog][Go to top][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[ home / overboard ] [ soy / qa / raid / r ] [ craft ] [ int / pol ] [ a / an / asp / biz / mtv / r9k / tech / v / sude / x ] [ q / news / chive / rules / pass / bans / status ] [ wiki / booru / irc ]