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 â„–2397080[Last 50 Posts][1][2][Quote]

Advanced Defense of Catholic Teaching

 â„–2397083[Quote]

Catholicism is the antichrist

 â„–2397084[Quote]

neat looking church

 â„–2397090[Quote]

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the pope smells like sulfur in his current state

 â„–2397092[Quote]

>>2397083
Catholicism is a religion. The Antichrist is a person or archetype. Please rephrase your objection in a way that makes sense.

 â„–2397101[Quote]

>>2397090
Maybe he is taking DMSO. Makes you smell like sulfur or garlic. You should try it. Supposedly it can cure mental retardation

 â„–2397106[Quote]

>>2397101
It took you 3 seconds to insult me

 â„–2397113[Quote]

Orthodoxy VVon

 â„–2397116[Quote]

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 â„–2397117[Quote]

>>2397113
i say this

 â„–2397118[Quote]

>>2397101
btfoed

 â„–2397122[Quote]

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Orthodoxy is whiter because you can grow a beard

 â„–2397123[Quote]

Orthodoxy better because frankly I don't see why you would feel the need to change anything

 â„–2397125[Quote]

>>2397080 (OP)
>>2397113
No it didn't orthodoxy is in error about the filioque

 â„–2397129[Quote]

>>2397101
It took you 3 seconds to insult the pope and then you cry about being insulted? Don't dish it out if you can't take it. Treat others the way you want to be treated. If you do not want to be insulted, then don't insult others.

 â„–2397134[Quote]

>>2397125
Filoque was added to combat arianism without the agreement of an ecumenical council, therefore a deviation from how things have been done before doe.

 â„–2397135[Quote]

>>2397116
The Catholic Church does not support lgbt. The fact that some people call themselves Catholic and then preach things that the Church condemns does not disprove Catholicism

 â„–2397139[Quote]

>>2397134
There was no deviation from what was taught before because it was never taught that the Spirit proceeded from only the Father. It's metaphysically impossible. Historical arguments cannot defeat a metaphysical argument that proves it must be that way

 â„–2397144[Quote]

>>2397129
Did Jesus say to slap people back? No, he said to turn the other cheek. I don't know where you're getting this from but I'm concerned you are incredibly wrong about something important

 â„–2397145[Quote]

I have yet to meet an orthodox who has any comprehension of what it actually means for the spirit to proceed from only the father vs proceeding from both. They have zero logical or metaphysical understanding of the topic and all they can do is make pathetic historical arguments which still fail to prove their case

 â„–2397149[Quote]

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my great uncle killed himself because a Catholic priest sexually assaulted him

 â„–2397150[Quote]

>>2397145
I don't need to rationalize what the exact difference is because I can see the current state of the Catholic church and the gates of hell have very clearly prevailed

 â„–2397156[Quote]

I'm Catholic but I would never put someone down for their faith as long as they worship Jesus as God. And as long as they're not some stupid variation of protestant like "nondenominational."

 â„–2397158[Quote]

>>2397144
>>2397144
No I'm not. You think you can use Christianity to manipulate Christian's with their own religion. It will never work. If you think it's unchristian to insult someone explain these words of Jesus, " Pharisees
…32Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your fathers. 33You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape the sentence of hell?" Jesus also calls people sons of the devil and tells them they will die in their sins. But you ignore those verses. Why?

 â„–2397160[Quote]

>>2397145
It's a very complex topic, but what I do know is that even if the Filioque was true, the Pope was in error in the way he went about changing the Creed, and because Papal Infallibility is wrong, Catholicism is wrong.

 â„–2397166[Quote]

>>2397156
That's you, who cares what you would do? We should be following the examples of the saints, especially the church fathers, and they had no problem putting others down who claimed that Jesus was God yet held other beliefs that were heretical, leading souls to hell

 â„–2397171[Quote]

>>2397158
the difference between you and Jesus is that Jesus is the one who will judge humanity at the end of the world, not you. He can say that because he has a right to, you don't

 â„–2397179[Quote]

>>2397160
He did not change the creed bc the creed never ever said that the son proceeded from ONLY the Father. That's the part the Orthodox changed. Sure, it says proceeds from the Father but not ONLY the Father. So nothing was changed, just further expanded upon like many other doctrines. I believe He proceeds from both bc it makes logical and metaphysical sense. History is not an argument that can defeat logic

 â„–2397186[Quote]

>>2397179
"Further expanding" on something that isn't mentioned is changing it. And you cannot rationalize the metaphysical, logic should not be applied to the incomphrensible

 â„–2397187[Quote]

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>>2397125
you cant just change the decision of a Ecumenical Council that was divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit.

>>2397129
why is bro replying to himself

 â„–2397190[Quote]

>>2397187
he just replied to the wrong post duh

 â„–2397191[Quote]

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>>2397171
1 Corinthians 6:3-4
King James Version
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

Please learn the Bible before further embarrassing yourself

 â„–2397192[Quote]


 â„–2397194[Quote]

>>2397179
The Creed didn't need to say "only the Father". In Greek theology, "from the Father" already means from Him alone. Adding "and the Son" isn't an expansion but a change, because it introduces a second cause of the Spirit. The Father's unique role as the single source of Son and Spirit is what defines the Trinity's order. The filioque blurs that distinction and shifts unity from the Father's person to an abstract essence, which is why the Orthodox reject it.

 â„–2397200[Quote]

>>2397187
No ecumenical council was changed. No ecumenical council ever said the Son proceeds ONLY from the Father. If you think I'm wrong provide evidence. Not a link, but a quote and citation. Maybe ai can help you

 â„–2397203[Quote]

>>2397191
are you a theologian or are you just blindly interpreting scripture to justify your own argument

 â„–2397210[Quote]

>>2397194
We are Christian not Greek. Latin is also a relevant language and the people who are experts in debating this are aware of the Greek vs Latin language barriers. But it doesn't matter bc our theology is not solely based on the Greek language. Latin is the official language of the church, not greek

 â„–2397211[Quote]

>>2397191
neither of those things contradict what I said
We know that God's judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God's judgment? Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?

 â„–2397218[Quote]

>>2397203
I am a theologian. I have a degree in theology. I went to ave Maria university, Steubenville and university of Scranton. I am an expert in thomistic metaphysics and systematic theology, which will become more and more apparent as I continue to answer objections. Don't worry I will provide citations to back up my claims.

 â„–2397219[Quote]

>>2397210
he meant "Greek" as in the Eastern Christian region, not as in the ethnicity

 â„–2397226[Quote]

>>2397210
Sure, but the creed was first formulated in greek, hence the languages significance when discussing it

 â„–2397229[Quote]

>>2397211
15 The spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is not subject to anyone's judgment. 16"For who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ


You realize how cliche ur objection is? The "don't judge" card is overplayed and easily refuted

 â„–2397231[Quote]

>>2397218
is there proof? i could easily say the same thing and yet that wouldnt be true

 â„–2397232[Quote]

>>2397166
We should decry serious heresy but at the end of the day arguing over whether the Holy Spirit proceeds from Jesus is a ridiculous argument to be having with a fellow believer. I'll defend my Catholic faith until the day I die, but it'd be ridiculous for me to attack someone else on the basis of their own faith. You are likely more qualified than I am for theological debate, so take my statement with a grain of salt.

 â„–2397239[Quote]

>>2397226
"First formulated" again, u are leaning against a historical argument but if ur claim is true then you should be able to show why your position is more metaphysically and logically sound then the position that the son proceeds from both…we have a common source of faith from the Bible and early church fathers that we can use to draw conclusions

 â„–2397240[Quote]

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>>2397229
you are a misguided and prideful man who is currently being used by the enemy into "defending" the "faith"
Satan you're a nigger and a faggot, get behind thee

 â„–2397242[Quote]

>>2397232
id agree, but at the same time Ecumenism is a serious concern

 â„–2397243[Quote]

>>2397240
C'mon now, ain't no need for this

 â„–2397247[Quote]

>>>2397218 (You)
>is there proof? i could easily say the same thing and yet that wouldnt be true>>2397231
That's why I said it would become more apparent as I continue to speak. I will pull obscure quotes from the doctors of the church and will display knowledge of advanced metaphysics of the arguments take me there

 â„–2397248[Quote]

>>2397242
As in you want to have it or not?

 â„–2397252[Quote]

>>2397240
Given that you called me a faggot, etc, I think it's safe to say that your accusations of pride are a psychological projection. I suggest focusing less on me and more on Jesus

 â„–2397257[Quote]

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>>2397243
rationalism is a tool of Satan to decieve otherwise good men including myself

 â„–2397259[Quote]

>>2397232
It's not ridiculous if you consider the words of st. Augustine who said there is no graver error than an error concerning the trinity

 â„–2397263[Quote]

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>>2397252
>"Satan you're a faggot"
>Given that you called me
>You called me
OYYYYYYYYYYY

 â„–2397265[Quote]

>>2397239
I think it has been sufficiently explained here. There's nothing i could add.>>2397239

 â„–2397270[Quote]

>>2397263
yikes if true

 â„–2397271[Quote]

>>2397270
MASSIVE YIKES Lord have mercy on us all

 â„–2397272[Quote]


 â„–2397276[Quote]

>>2397257
>>2397265
So then you have no logical reasons to believe ur position is true? Just your interpretation of history? You can't answer any objections to your position other than to claim that your position was the original one? The problem is that we are not arguing about what is original but what is true. You need to show your position is eternally true, independent of history

 â„–2397277[Quote]

>>2397272
I mean here

 â„–2397278[Quote]

>>2397259
I know that, but I think that concerns strictly theologians. It'd be more important to save yourself and others from the greater from greater threats (satanic themes within modern culture for example) before diving back into theological debate. Just my two cents though

 â„–2397284[Quote]

>>2397276
I don't need logical reasons or historical reasons, I just believe that the Orthodoxy is the truth. The Catholic church is very visibly wrong in its current state

 â„–2397286[Quote]

>>2397276
can you explain more on how believing that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and Son makes sense? i want to see your perspective

 â„–2397288[Quote]

>>2397194
Oh my bad I didn't see the metaphysical claim. It's true that the Father is the single principle (principium) without principle in the Trinity, and this is what gives the divine persons their order. Yet, as Aquinas explains, the Spirit proceeds from the Father through the Son, not as from two sources, but as from one principle in whom the Son shares the Father's power of spirating. "Since the Son receives all that He is from the Father, He also receives from the Father that the Holy Spirit proceeds from Him" (ST I, q.36, a.3).

Thus, the filioque does not blur the Father's role as source, but rather expresses that the Father's communication of His divine essence to the Son includes the communication of the power to spirate. The unity of the Godhead therefore remains in the one essence of the Father, from whom the Son and Spirit have their origin, yet the relations of origin are maintained: the Father as principle without principle, the Son as principle from a principle, and the Spirit as proceeding from both as from one.

 â„–2397293[Quote]

>>2397286
Because if the son proceeds from the father alone and the same is true for the spirit, then there is no distinguishing between the son and the spirit since the only thing in the trinity that gives distinction is the person's relation to each other

 â„–2397298[Quote]

>>2397284
Ok no logic, no history, you just take it on blind faith and bc the Catholic Church "looks bad"…haha ok whatever

 â„–2397300[Quote]

>>2397298
sorry I'm just doing what Jesus said to

 â„–2397304[Quote]

>>2397293
the Son and Holy Spirit are still distinguished however. its two unique persons that proceed from one nature.
<
how did you come to the conclusion that the Holy Spirit isnt distinguished without the Filioque?

 â„–2397306[Quote]

>>2397298
I mean he's not wrong. It's possible for the Catholic Church itself to be flawed (because the congregation is human) while Catholicism is still the truth (because it is passed down from the words of Jesus).

 â„–2397309[Quote]

>>2397300
Jesus didn't say to take things on blind faith. "Always be ready to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you."
- 1 Peter 3:15

Faith must be reasonable and explainable. Peter explicitly tells believers not to believe blindly, but to be prepared with rational grounds for their faith.

"Test everything; hold fast what is good."
- 1 Thessalonians 5:21
-faith should be discerned and tested, not accepted without thought.

That's why we say faith and reason are two wings of the same bird

 â„–2397311[Quote]

>>2397288
So you agree that the Son doesn't take part in the causality of the Spirit?

 â„–2397327[Quote]

>>2397304
"When the Counselor comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me."
- John 15:26

The Spirit proceeds from the Father - that is, from a person. Notice again, Jesus does not say "from the divine nature," but "from the Father."

If the Son or Spirit proceeded from the divine nature, then the divine nature would be divided or multiplied. But the divine essence is utterly simple and indivisible - it cannot "produce" anything. As Aquinas explains:

"The nature is common to all three Persons; hence, if the procession were from the nature, each Person would proceed from Himself, which is impossible."
- ST I, q.27, a.3 ad 3

Therefore, the processions are from persons, not from nature - but what is communicated in those processions is the one, identical divine nature.

 â„–2397328[Quote]

>>2397311
To me, it seems to be more of an issue of semantics and how we understand "proceeds from"

 â„–2397334[Quote]

>>2397311
I don't know what you mean by the word "causality". Strictly and technically speaking the Son and Holy Spirit are uncaused even though they proceed from the Father even though some early Greek fathers used the word "cause" more loosely…so just explain ur meaning

 â„–2397335[Quote]

>>2397309
Nothing of what Jesus or Peter said there means to use reason in that, I'm making a defense for it right now

 â„–2397345[Quote]

>>2397334
Cause as in personal source, not a temporal sequence of creation

 â„–2397355[Quote]

>>2397327
i find this to be quite a stretch. the trinity shares a divine essence; that doesnt justify the spirit having to also proceed from the son

 â„–2397358[Quote]

>>2397335
>>2397335
If u can;t read between the lines, Isaiah 1:18 is more explicit

 â„–2397369[Quote]

>>2397358
>16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;

>17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.


>18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.


>19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:


>20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.


???????

 â„–2397375[Quote]

>>2397355
No it doesn't justify that's not why I said it, I said it to argue against the error that they proceed from the divine nature. Procession is said in regards to persons and their relations to each other. The persons do not proceed from the divine nature. Do you concede or deny that? If you concede then we can address your new point but let's not talk past each other. It's not a race. This is a rigorous topic, one of the most difficult debates you can have

 â„–2397379[Quote]

Look I'm sorry 73QusfwK but you're making fucking "I'm white on the bottom of my feet" arguments now this literally just has the word reason in it when he's clearly using it in the context of being reasonable when it comes to forgiveness

 â„–2397399[Quote]

>>2397369
"Come now, let us reason together". God wants us to use our reasoning faculty….He didn't give us logic so that we may ignore it and act on faith alone. "The light of your countenance shines upon thee" is also a reference to being made in God's image whereby it is written to be "renewed in the spirit of our MIND" that's what it means to put on the "new man". It's an ongoing theme-to subject our emotions and passions to reason and our reason to the revealed will of God (faith)

 â„–2397411[Quote]

>>2397379
Maybe I'm not understanding then what your exact objection is, if we can start over and restate it in another way

 â„–2397419[Quote]

>>2397411
>>2397399
Two hundred and twenty two Chinese people didn't get murdered for Christ so you can sit here and tell me faith is about OWNING PEOPLE WITH FACTS AND LOGIC

 â„–2397428[Quote]

>>2397419
Faith is about OWNING PEOPLE WITH FACTS AND LOGIC. Faith based outside reality is superstition

 â„–2397433[Quote]

>>2397428
geg I get it

 â„–2397444[Quote]

>>2397419
Jesus, on the beginning of the Gospel of John is called the Logos…which is a cognate of the word Logic". And logic takes precedence over your appeal to emotion argument about Chinese Christians dying. Evil people die for their causes too. Dying for a cause is not what makes the cause right.

 â„–2397454[Quote]


 â„–2397458[Quote]

>>2397428
Because faith is beyond reason but it is never contrary to reason. The articles of faith cannot be logically proven from the ground up but since they are true, logic and reason is their friend and logic defends faith against objections, distortions and errors. Were it not so, every individual could have their own idiosyncratic faith - idiot faith, also related to the word heretic…that's why you have thousands of Protestant denominations that cannot agree, bc they abandoned logic in favor of self-glorification disguised as a "personal relationship with Jesus".

 â„–2397463[Quote]

>>2397444
wtf you're actually saying that 222 Chinese martyrs are evil

 â„–2397467[Quote]

I fucking hate catholic doctorine (not you) so much its unreal

 â„–2397470[Quote]

>>2397463
Quote my exact words and carefully explain how you perverted that meaning out of what I said. Please connect that dots for us. Let's see if your hate can compete with logic and truth

 â„–2397475[Quote]

>>2397467
That's bc it forbids you from doing what is selfish and evil

 â„–2397493[Quote]

>>2397463
And let's just be clear, you are claiming if someone dies for a cause, then the cause is good, for example The Jewish Zealots resisted Roman rule with violence, believing they were serving God by destroying Gentiles and collaborators. Many died rather than surrender, such as those at Masada (AD 73).
They died bravely, but their cause - violent revolt against lawful authority and the rejection of Christ's message of peace - was not holy.

 â„–2397496[Quote]

>>2397470
you type like chat gpt and you're running off of pride please unplug your computer NOW

 â„–2397504[Quote]

>>2397493
yeah yeah yeah look fuck arguing with this BULLSHIT arguing is for Pharisees and retards who think like Pharisees, fuck this thread THE CATHOLIC CHURCH CAN KISS MY ASS
THE POPE IS THE ANTICHRIST

 â„–2397506[Quote]

>>2397496
Hahaha I was waiting for that…if your ego has to cope by claiming,one i, using ChatGPT, I will happily accept a challenge to do a live video debate right now…we can do it on MeetMe and invite everyone here and we will see if I'm needing ChatGPT. BRING IT

 â„–2397507[Quote]

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>>2397080 (OP)
Chatolicism will being peace in the middle east

 â„–2397522[Quote]

>>2397506
Oh so you WANTED me to get annoyed, real slick there willy that's a really good faith argument like how your faith is based off of a bunch of bullshit reasoning
>>2397506
Sure warrior P we can do meet me or something

 â„–2397526[Quote]

>>2397504
Wrong again.
"And he entered the synagogue and for three months spoke boldly, reasoning and persuading them about the kingdom of God. But when some became stubborn and continued in unbelief, speaking evil of the Way before the multitude, he departed from them, and took the disciples with him, reasoning daily in the school of Tyrannus."
- Acts 19:8-9, RSV

Paul argued with the Jews and disputed with the greeks

 â„–2397532[Quote]

>>2397526
>BUT- BUT PAUL
you ain't Paul nigga

 â„–2397536[Quote]

>>2397522
Good I hope everyone watches..my name on MeetMe is Faith&Reason what is yours…I'll be waiting let us know when u arrive

 â„–2397537[Quote]

>>2397532
And you aren't me

 â„–2397539[Quote]

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>>2397507
stfu the great nation of israel will you stupid goyim

 â„–2397542[Quote]

>>2397522
Yes I love annoying jealous and envious people who get miserable at every gift and talent that they lack but others possess…pure evil and I will enjoy watching ur jealousy turn in on itself for ur false accusations

 â„–2397544[Quote]

>>2397536
Is meet me an app or something?

 â„–2397556[Quote]

>>2397544
Ya im gonna go live and paste the url in a minute…lets see who shows up can't wait to see what these chat chat accusers will say on live bideo

 â„–2397568[Quote]

So I'm ready to go live to call the bluff of the hater who said I need ChatGPT…anyone actually gonna show

 â„–2397573[Quote]

>>2397556
Hurry up nigga

 â„–2397575[Quote]

>>2397556
nigga im gonna donate you 30 sheckels

 â„–2397580[Quote]

>>2397496
Non argument. Emotional attack.

 â„–2397582[Quote]

>>2397573
I'm still waiting for my opponent to tell me his name on meetme

 â„–2397585[Quote]

>>2397582
He's too busy drawing furry porn

 â„–2397587[Quote]

>>2397582
It's chud
>>2397585
Hey who told you that?



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